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Screamin Eagle Pro stage 3 103 kit
  #1  
Old 12-26-2008, 10:58 PM
tony2772
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Default Screamin Eagle Pro stage 3 103 kit

Mike been reading the forums for awhile and also brought my bike to your shop to have the tuner installed and a custom dyno done. Runs great, but now I looking for more power.
I've read about all the posts I could find on 103 builds and read your comments on the 255 cams for touring bikes and the low torque they produce. My question is your opinion on the stage 3 kit on a 08 train. I know the torque curve is a bit higher, if my calculations are correct I should be crusing just at the start of the curve in 6th. With the lighter bike ( I mostly ride solo 99%) I don't think I would have to down shift when rolling along at 65 or 75, I live in Idaho and the speed limit on the freeway is 75. Currently I have the V&H straight shots but will be changing them out to help the motor breath more, was looking at the V&H bigshot staggered, or the pro pipe bp. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, also if I wanted more power in the future this platform could easily support a set of baisley super stock heads.
I would appreciate any and all comments on this Mike, Thanks
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2008, 01:10 AM
tony2772
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Mike another option I thought might work would to go with the stage 1 103 and then buy the 251 cams and a .035 gasket and pushrods. I would save the cost of the compression releases and the machining work. Would going the other route be better. I read where you stated the 251's like 10.2:1 as where I would be at 10.5:1 with the stage 3 kit and only at 9.8:1 with the stage 1 kit.
Please help all this thinking is giving me a migrain.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2008, 11:25 AM
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The SE stg III kit is the 103 version we've been selling for several years as our "95ci 251 Boss" kit. See our 251 dyno folder on this site. We normally would use Baisley Super Stock heads to take full advantage but have done the kits using 05L stock heads with good results.

Problem with the stg I vs stg III is the compression required and the pistons used to get it. Even with the thin head gaskets, the flat top pistons will not provide enough compression to properly support the 251 cams. The 251's like a MINIMUM of 10.0 but can support as much as 10.7. Lower compression will result in a lazy motor at lower rpm's. This is our problem when trying to progress through a series of combinations. You can go this route so long as you know the compromizes until you've reach the end goal. It also means you'll be buying pistons twice (and possibly bore jobs).

The 251 cams would be the better choice for your ap[plication and riding demands vs the 255's. Much more power where YOU ride. On a 103 ci motor, the D&D Boarzilla, quiet baffle, would be my pipe choice if you go with ported heads. The FatCat, performance baffle, would be a better choice with stock, unported, heads.

In the end, it would be best to save for the final combo of BHP SS heads, 251 cams, 103 10.5 pistons and pipe to be done all at once. The before and after performance will be better appreciated.
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2008, 04:15 PM
tony2772
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So Mike a couple of questions
1- how would the stage 3 setup work with stock heads and the V&H straight shot slipons until I got the head work done and the D&D Boarzilla installed, would I notice a difference from what I have now(slipons and SE A/C and SE race tuner pro)
2-Could I get away with running the stage 3 for a little while before I had the MCR's installed
3-what kinda numbers do you think this setup would make doing it your way of course 110HP/110TQ?, and do you think I would have the TQ dip at the begining like most of the dyno charts showed?
Thanks in advance for your help

Last edited by tony2772; 12-27-2008 at 04:52 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2008, 06:37 PM
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1. You will notice a BIG difference just from the cubic inch increase. You may see a slight tq dip around 2.5k rpm. It will work very well. The V&H straight shots willl restrict the overall power unless the baffles are modified.

2. With the flat top pistons and 251 cams, the MCR's are not required.

3. With unmodified V&H StShot baffles, stock heads and low compression expect 100 tq/ 95hp. With modified baffles, add 5 to each but with a more severe tq dip around 2.5. Add ported heads and compression, then 110-115tq/hp. With the D&D, you could see 115tq/120hp (STD, 5th gear). Higher numbers have been reported but we would not be able to promise them.

The tq dip is a function of the cams' duration and overlap and exhaust back pressure. It's the rpm range that is sacrificed to achieve the higher peak numbers. It can be restored with cams similar to the 255 BUT conversley, you give up the peak numbers. Exhaust with more restriction can have the same affect. Bottom line is something must be given to gain elswhere. The 2.5 area is most often sacrificed because a gear change (to raise rpm's) can make this loss less of a problem.
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2008, 03:30 PM
tony2772
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The SE Stage 3 kit Part #27513-08 lists the pistons as being 10.5:1(piston part#22144-08) with stock heads, do you think I still will not need MCR's. You stated low compression I didn't think 10.5:1 was low compression. Modified baffles? what and how do you mean, how could I modify them. Would the numbers still be the same.
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  #7  
Old 12-30-2008, 02:24 PM
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The low compression was in reference to earlier discussions regarding the stg 1 kit with 251 cams. Got a little lost on kit versions. The 10.5/stg 3 kit has a corrected pressure of 9.4 and MCR's would be recommended but not "required". We've done similar combo's with similar corrected pressures, without MCR's which worked fine. However, the MCR's would be of help, especially should the battery get low.

The baffle modification is simply cutting the baffles down to about 4 inches in lenght. This really helps top end and peak numbers but also introduces a torque dip around 2.5krpm. The dyno library has some really good examples of this affect in the "Exhaust-test and compare" folder. The V&H Straigh Shot slip-ons are known to be fairly restrictive and this mod helps reduce that. On aggressive 103 motors, we have seen 20-30hp gains with this mod alone. The Big Shots are a little better but still respond to this mod when the initial dyno numbers are not what was expected. The V&H 2 in 1 Pro pipe has a performance baffle available and this would be recommended for your proposed build, but it too will have the 2.5-2.7 k rpm dip. Again, review the "Exhaust" folder for examples. As you review these note whether a cam is installed or not. Bikes with cams will exhibit more of a dip than those with stock cams. This is due to increased overlap and duration.
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  #8  
Old 12-30-2008, 06:13 PM
tony2772
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Thanks Mike did not mean to confuse you, I just ordered the stage 3 kit. I was looking in the super race tuner files and did not see a map for the stage 3 do you know if one is available. I've tried to update the maps but come up with an error saying I have no internet connection which I do.
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2008, 10:10 AM
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Easily confused these days!!! The closest map file we have for a similar combo is a Touring model with D&D Boarzilla, quiet baffle, stock t-body, 251 cams. This could be a good start from which to final tune. The touring and Softail D&D's are different, so the map would not be an exact match. The closed loop may be able to account for those differences, at least where active.

We would likely use SE map file 176PI005 as a base from which to custom map if the bike was here for tuning.

Map file updates should be able to be downloaded from the SEST main menu page "Check for updates". I cannot answer the "no internet" question, this would be a local computer issue.
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Update on 103 stage 3 build
  #10  
Old 01-22-2009, 05:58 PM
tony2772
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Default Update on 103 stage 3 build

Mike thanks for the help in putting this together. I just got done today putting it all back together and took it out for a test ride felt good. Just waiting on the D&D fatcat to arrive now. All went pretty good, just followed the service manual to a T, had to improvise on a couple of the tools and had to make one for the valve springs though. I used the download you had mentioned and seems to work, will be able to tell more when I get it on the Dyno. Just need to change the fluids now and fill it back up. I was able to get the MCR's done locally for $80.
When I schedule for the Dyno is there any way to request that you do the tuning?
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