Best year to build?

[COVSpringer08]

Mike
I'm looking to buy a street glide to build up.. Which years would be better 05 06 or 07 if i start with an 07 96ci i would have the 6sp (Most guys like the 5sp) and could step up to the 103ci. If i could find an 05-06 for a great price i would like to go to JIM's 120 or build a motor? Far as tuning the three years which is your choice.. the 05s don't have 02 correct.. the 06 and 07 do

Thanks!

[Mike]

My first reaction is to go with the 05, 5speed, Jims 120. This is strickly from a dyno number standpoint in that we know the numbers will be higher and better able to meet customers expectations (kinda selfish). From a ride standpoint, the 6speed is nice while the upgrade to a 103 is easy and relatively inexpensive.

Tuning wise, no real difference. Jims or aggressivley built motors will get aftermakerket or SE throttlebodies. When custom tuned, the O2's do not have a lot left to do and so arre less of an issue (still nice to have as a fine level of tuning). More a function of parts choices and how aggressive the build is. Even on the 06/07's, to get the pereformance of a 120/131 out of a built stock motor is not as cost affective as purchasing a Jims when factoring in the possible sale of the complete takeout stock motor.

[COVSpringer08]

I'm thinking hard about 07 i still want the cable TB not the drive by wire.

If i go 2007 and build up an 103.. Do i port the stock heads or buy something better? Could you give me a few ideals on a 07 -- 103 build, cams, heads, pipes?

[Mike]

We like to port the stock heads but you do have several choices. The SE CNC ported heads are very good for a 103. The cam/exhaust choice depends on where you want your torque. As always, strong tq from 2-3k rpm will be had with something similar to the 255 cams and slip-ons or D&D Fatcat 2-1. Stronger tq from 2.7-4.5 will be generated with cams similar to the 257/258 and a more open exhaust like the D&D Borezilla or other full system. This later combo will, however, sacrifice tq around 2.5k (possibly even less than stock). Tq losses in this area on a 6speed equipped bike can be very noticable to some owners. Even though downshifting gets the rpms into the better range, many owners want to get a good hit from 2k. Lighter bikes accelerate through this tq dip better and so can stand a little more cam/compression/exhaust vs touring models.

The exhaust and cam work in concert in that you do not want to select a HP oriented (high rpm)exhaust and a tq cam or vice-versa. The cam selection also dictates the compression ratio and so will have a major impact on the parts choices. Both the hp and tq combos respond well to porting but the hp version will respond to a greater extent (higher rpms take better advantage of porting).

In the end it is all about defining the owners expectations and use of the bike. Knowing that, for example, the 255 combo will give spectacular tq from 2-4k ("seat of the pants") BUT will have what could be disappointing dyno numbers (expectations). More aggressive packages can give GREAT dyno numbers but can sacrifice tq right where an owner may be expecting a gain, giving them a disappointing "seat of the pants" experiance. These compromises must be carefully considered.

[COVSpringer08]

I will be going with an 07 street glide with 2,000 miles.. What's the biggest bore i can go with out boring the cases?

I'm looking at least a 103 maybe 117 motor build which true dauls are best?

Can you run the ACRs on this bike?

Thanks!

[Mike]

Revolutions' 3.938 bore cyinders will give 106.6ci without boring the cases.

We've been testing other ture duals and still have found nothing that work better the the RineHarts/performance baffles, from a PEAK dyno chart numbers point of view. A good 2-1 will work better.

You can use the ACR's just fine and possibly the MCR's depending on the head work performed.

[COVSpringer08]

Will the 07's ECM support the ACR's... Like on my 08 CVO 110?

Is there a wiring harness there for them.

[Mike]

The 07 ECM will support the ACR's with SE Super Tuner. Yes, there is an accessory wiring harness that must be purchased with the ACR's.

[COVSpringer08]

Mike it will be a 07 street glide build.. 103 0r the 106 you where talking about which is easier?
Will the 106 clys be Harley parts you also said something about SE cnc heads.
I want to get a list of parts together to start this project. What size TB is on the 96 motor, Have you ever put the SE 255 cams in a 96?

[Mike]

Both the 103 and 106 kits are bolt-in. The 106 is Revolution Nicom cylinders (all aluminum, Nicasil coated), it is NOT an H-D product and must use the Revolution pistons. By elminating the cast in steel liner, the bore can be larger (relative to the spigot diameter which must fit into the cases), thus giving the 106ci vs 103 for lined cylinders.

The 103 can be all H-D or use aftermarket pistons depending on application and heads. The SE CNC heads are very good for these combo's but may be tricky getting the desired compression when used with the 106 Revolution pistons. Ported stock casting also are a very good option.

We've not put the 255's in a 96. The stock cams do a good job of building tq in the 2-3K rpm area, which is the normal reason for selecting the 255's. I.E., the amount of gain (if any) would not justify the cost. With a cam change in a 96ci stock motor, most owners are looking for a greater gain than the 255's would deliver and so other cam options are typically considered.

[COVSpringer08]

For an 103 i can used HD clys. Port the stock heads or SE cnc heads with maybe a JE or CP
(aftermarket pistons) Not sure on cams yet i see alot of 257/258s in 103 builds i will sometimes ride 2 up but mainly just me.

What do you think of duals V&H header pipes with the NEW monster oval mufflers? I know a D&D 2 into 1 would help peak Hp

Thanks!

[Mike]

Have not tested the V&H duals with the Monsters. Traditionally, single diameter true dual head pipes have not given good performance when used on even moderately built engines. The more aggresive or larger the motor, the more pronounced this becomes. When used with moderate cams (255 or even 251's) and motor combos, they may give pretty good tq from 2-3K but will really limit hp above 4k. This limit goes contrary to installing ported heads (and the compression and cam choices that normally go with the same). I.E., we install ported heads to gain high end hp, so we'll want an exhaust that compliments this.

[COVSpringer08]

Looks like the D&D 2-1 with gost pipe.

Whats the stock TB on a 96 motor?

I'm thinking 103 SE cnc heads, SE 251s, not sure on pistons

[Mike]

Stock cable t-bodies are advertized at 46mm (ETC's are 50).

Pre 08 SE HTCC CNC heads should be used with their matching pistons, kit part number 22444-02. These heads have now been replaced with the MVA CNC ported heads which should be matched to piston kit part number 22137-08A.

With the resulting compression ratio, in both cases, of 10.5:1 and the 103ci motor size, either the 257 or 258 cams (or similar) should be considered for starting ease and reduced detonation potential.

[COVSpringer08]

Mike When and where would you use the 251s?

Thanks!

[Mike]

With 10.2 compression and a touring bike. 10.5 is just a little high for the 251's, but they can be run. Tuning has to be spot on with little room for detonation control. Premium fuel only (as with most builds), it will not be fuel tolerant. Lately we've been erring a little more conservative (at least for us) due to more frequent ping and fuel milage complaints. We believe the complaints stem from the ethonal additives since we really haven't changed too much in how we build the motors. Another contributor may be the lower running rpms and higher engine loads that go with the 6 speeds.

We really do want to provide customers with bikes that make good power, are fun to ride, get decent fuel mileage and do not give grief such as ping, surging or high temps. Sometimes we may have to give up a little of the optimum to allow room for variables found in real life riding to meet those goals. I.E., even though the 251 cam may look best on paper, experiance may dictate the 257 or 258, for the above reasons, as a better choice for the customer.

[COVSpringer08]

Thanks i see what your saying.

If you have 2 motors 103s both with the same heads and TB but one is 10:5 with 257s and 2nd one is 11:5 with 264s both close to the corrected 9.3 compression

Would they both have the same bottom end tq or not because of the added duration? I know the 264s would have more upper end but does the 11:5 help bring back bottom end? or would you need more like 12:1 or higher.

[Mike]

With increased duration typically comes increased overlap. This can soften low end tq, so with both giving the same corrected pressure, the longer duration cams will still have a slightly deeper tq dip. They also tend to have wider LSA's than shorter duration cams, moving low end losses to slightly higher rpms.

[COVSpringer08]

What's the LSA on the 257s and 258s?

[Mike]

LSA for the 257 is 105.5 (102.0/109.0 lobe centers). For the 258, 107.0 (103.0/111.0 lobe centers).

[COVSpringer08]

If the O2s are unpluged for 2,000 miles because of a PC installed are the O2s junk now? The bike i got has a PC on it now and i will be installing a SERT on it very soon will i need to get new O2s.

Also the 07 FLHX seems to be hotter than my 08 FXSTSSE with sert.. Is this the PC it also sparknocks if you whip the throttle?

Thanks

[Mike]

Unless the bike was run super rich for the period the O2's were offline, they should be fine. The hot exhaust gases should keep them clean.

The heat/ping differences are likely due to tuning differences between the two systems. One reason I prefer SERT vs PC is that is retains the closed loop feature but also allows deffinition as well. This is one feature we use to reduce heat (target a lower AFR when in closed loop).

[COVSpringer08]

I'm looking at going with the revolution 107 kit.. Porting the stock heads not sure on the TB should i buy a new one or can i ship it out to be bored and ported?

I have Zippers rs575 cams i got for my 08 se110 still in the box, how would they work in the FHLX 107 build?

When do you upgrade to roller tip rockers .600 plus?

Thanks

[Mike]

If compression is kept to 10-10.2, the 575TC cam will work well. Not quite enough duration fo a motor that size so top end charge will be soft but low end should be great with a pipe optimized for same.

Roller rockers are always a good thing but I do not push hard for them with cams under .600 lift. Use Baisley rockers with corrected geometry, if you can.

Baisley also now offers T-body porting and it is VERY good. Both Kuryakin and HPI offer bodies for you application.

[COVSpringer08]

I don't want the street glide hotter than the CVO springer.. And i have the rs575s (can get new cams for 110 later) how easy is it to use the 96 stock heads and HD 103 cly. to get 10-10:2:1?

I have talked with Baisley's on my SE 110 and will have them to work the TB and heads. Are the Baisley rocker a roller tip?

Starter list, 103 with 10:2:1, rs575s, Baisley TB 51mm, stock ported heads, SERT... which exhaust?

[Mike]

The 96 heads and flat top 103 pistons should allow 10.0 compression (when decked) but this will need to be confirmed by Baisley. The valves and porting can change all this.

The Baisley rockers are roller tipped, they correct the geometry as part of the roller tip conversion. Note: geometry correction also requires valve stem lengths to be corrected, so is done along with head work.

We still recoomend the D&D Boarzilla with quiet baffle. The Fatcat, with performance baffle, will also give good results with better low end tq but less peak hp. Rinehart true duals still a good option but do not expect big hp numbers, new baffle design gives good low end.

[COVSpringer08]

Do you know the cc of the 2007 96 heads?

I would like stay with duals.. Are the Rineharts head pipes stepped

[Mike]

CC's should be between 85-87 (castings vary). have not directly CC'c a set of 07's but they should not have changed from earlier models.

The touring Rineharts and Bub 7's are stepped. As well as the Hard Krome and Caliber, but we've not seen the performance from these vs the RH's. I suspect it is muffler volume, baffle differences and restrictions at the head pipe opening.

[COVSpringer08]

With this build would you worry about the sprocket side bearing ( Timken upgrade)..

Still not sure on exhaust i like the look of the BUB 7s true dauls.. I know the D&D 2-1 would make more power.

Thanks

[COVSpringer08]

The build will be a 103 using my clys... Porting my stock heads do they need bigger valves? I do have the RS575 would it be worth the time to sale these and go with T-man 625s? About the same cams but .050 more lift..

On a 103, 10:2:1 rs575s ported heads, Would the 46mm tb kill the build? and would a 51mm be worth the money?

Thanks

[Mike]

Deffinitely go with the bigger t-body with the ported heads. Have the t-body ported, also, by Baisley. I would stay with the 575's. Valve sizes should be left up to the porter as they'll know best what works with their porting. Baisley does increase valve sizes, but the increase depends on the porting.