Trouble with 05 Roadglide 95" tuning

[wydeglyde]

Not sure if I'm going nuts, but I am sure frustrated. I put a lot of money into my 95" and I am unhappy. Hope I can keep this short.

I have taken my 05 Roadglide in repeatedly since installing a 95". I have asked them to figure out how to get rid of an annoying miss that has been plaguing the bike since at least the build if not longer. When i rode between about 2200 - 2500 rpm with no load on the engine and the throttle just off idle (like whenever I'm cruising down a flat road) I could hear what seemed to be the engine missing, I could feel the momentary loss of momentum, and hear the odd pop. It happened in all gears but primarily 1-3. This has been present at least since the build about 1 1/2 years ago. It has been present with the S&S SPO's, Fatcat and now the FatCat with quiet baffle. As soon as you roll the throttle on and get the rpm up, the miss disappears.

The bike has been in twice for leaking valve seals (within 23,000 miles), the first time at about 7500 miles and the last one installed this spring at the same time I had them install the fatcat to replace the S&S SPO's. They tuned it and got pretty good numbers 96 hp and 98 torque with a nice curve, but still with the aggravating miss. The pipe was very loud so I ordered the quiet baffle and installed it a couple of months ago. I took it in and asked them to first tune the bike for the quiet baffle and then try to figure out the miss. They keep trying to tune it out and ended up with only 93 hp and 91 torque, ...... and of course the miss.

After riding it for a week I took it back in to bitch about the miss. They said the miss was caused by the high lift cam allowing exhaust to back up into the cylinder during the valve overlap and this was normal, just ride it harder, stay out of that light cruise zone. I spoke to the owner and he felt there was something else wrong that needed to be corrected before tuning. He said he would personally supervise the progress and take an engineering approach to finding the problem. So, I left the bike with them for 3 1/2 weeks while I was away on vacation. When i picked up the bike I found out there was really no investigation done to speak of, just 2 more hours on the dyno trying to smooth out the miss by tuning below 2800 rpm (when the cam kicks in) and above 2800 seperately. He took it for a long ride and said it was good to go.

Well it still has the miss, plus I get backfiring between upshifts and downshifts. Although slightly less pronounced, the miss now extends up to around 3100 rpm. It is frustrating to ride, I can't see how to keep it out of those rpms. At 35 mph I am just over 3200 rpm in 2nd, but 3rd drops it down into the really rough zone about 2400-2500 rpm. It feels like the engine is either screaming or lugging.

I got really frustrated over the weeknd and replaced the plugs and wires which made a pretty good improvement, but a miss is still there. It was more drivable though.

The bike is an 05 FLTRI with 95" jugs, Woods TW6HG cam, In house ported and polished stock heads, FatCat with quiet baffle, SE air cleaner. They told me compression is about 9.5:1 Is this normal for these cams? I know there are lots of these cams sold, and I can't imagine there are lots of guys riding around with smiles on their faces while the bike goes bup, bup, bup, bup.

I hope this makes sense, and you can tell me if this is normal. I've dumped over $5000 into the engine and it's had at least **130** dyno runs to this point. My wife's sick of us throwing money at it, with little results. She thinks we should just trade it in.

I have been wondering since I changed the plugs & wires and saw some improvement, if maybe there isn't enough flow through the heads (or not enough compression) to support the cams. Or now that the plugs and wires are replaced should I have them try to retune it and get me back up to the 96 hp and 98 torque. I have no confidence left with these guys.

I am considering hauling the bike from Alberta down to your shop and get it tuned properly. I know you have recommended Deweys heads in the past. If you think part of the problem is the stock heads would you recommend a set from Deweys? Any other thoughts?

HELP! & Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

:(

[Mike]

I'm not aware that we've recommended Dewey's heads, we have not heard anything contrary to them but that is not a recommendation. We have not seen enough of their work to qualify a judgement. Our choices are Baisley, or T-Man for those on the eastern half who want someone a little closer to home.
The TW6 cams normally work best with 10.2-10.5 compression. 9.5 seems light but I would not expect increasing compression to solve your miss (may actually make it worse). I tend to agree with the assessment that it is a function of the cam/heads/exh. As overlap and duration go up, the 1800-2200 rpm area becomes very unstable as far as MAP loads, reversion and manifold crosstalk is concerned, especially at steady throttle openings and lower gears (lighter load). This makes it the most difficult area to smoothly tune. Your miss is not uncommon with such combinations as air can actually sort of stall in the manifold upsetting consistant fuel ingestion into the cylinder. When the throttle is opened, air starts flowing more evenly improving fuel mix.

Ignition timing is one area that can have a noticable effect and this is where I would start. This may also explain why the new wires and plugs help, better spark. It would be a matter of just trying changes to see cause and effect. I.E., increase timing (big changes) and if it gets noticably worse then try decreasing. H-D uses this approach to soften drivetrain snatch in 07 bikes by reducing timing dramatically from about 2000 down (also softens performance).

There are other things that can be checked, sounds dumb but make sure the injectors wires are on the correct injector. Bikes with the wires reveresed is not unheard of and easily overlooked. Have the dyno guy try different load control percentages while holding in the issue rpm's and record AFR's for both front and rear cylinders sperately (O2 sensor probe deep into each pipe). This may reveal if it is really a fuel issue or not (easy to do with "step test"). While doing so also record data for the TP % and other sensors (SERT allows this) to see if the TP is jumping around. It should be steady when holding the throttle steady as with the Temp sensors. The MAP will be all over the place somewhat confirming the above theory. Last resort may be trying new injectors in the rare case one is leaking or not responding to ECM signals well. Of course if it is an injector, TP sensor or other, tuning will not cure. Data recording may help determine this.
Hope this helps, Mike

[wydeglyde]

I apologize Mike, I should have checked before I spouted off. It was indeed the Baisley heads I was thinking of. I read about them in American Iron.

Thanks for your input. I will approach the shop one more time (with your recommendations). If they aren't willing to try this I will have to look elsewhere. I was serious about bringing the bike down if I have to. I just want to get it sorted out so i can ride.

This is a wonderful service you provide. I applaud you and the dealership.

[Mike]

We just tuned a bike down from Edmundton, Canada.
Mike

[wydeglyde]

I think you will be seeing mine as well. I will call the dealership to look at potential dates, details, etc.

[Mike]

Look forward to it! We hope to be doing one for American Rider Magazine out of Seattle soon.
Mike