"The Quote"

[gypsyangel]

Mike per our conversation the other day in the or your office we discussed the engine build for my 03 deuce. You were going to email that quote to me and i know you mentioned it may take a couple of days and we are doing it predicated on the winter 20/20 so the rush is just to have it fresh in your mind when you check your notes. I'm also getting quotes at other spots around oregon and even though your a couple blocks from home It serves common sense to get a feel for the climate in various shops concerning engine builds. I like the boss 95 from what i've read and also the hippo build it's rather inexpensive and really nails the numbers. but i also like most of what we discussed the other day and I do have a coupe questions. (a) Rumor has it that the bearing on the sprocket side of the engine was compromise in 2002 and now there is an issue especially when rebuilding the 88 of bearing failure. The timken bearing is the resolve for this and of course you have to split the cases. question is what is the validity factor on this issue. #2 after we do the build I need you to run over the break in because i mentioned that i thought you had said you would dyno my bike when the build was done and I have had people clear in bend say there is no way you would do anything other than find a decent break in map and after 2K probably have me back in for a final mapping of the finished bike. changing the oil every 500-700 miles is that a correct presumption. Finally can you email the numbers to me so i can get a look see its and you have it already but for the record it's cadmansteve2000@yahoo.com
That would be awesome and thanks

[Mike]

Working on quote, have not forgot. The sale price will be in play no problem. The bearing conversion to Timken is something we can do in house but adds a significant cost to the build and typically makes it cost prohibitive. Our experiance is that for the hp levels were are talking about with your proposed combo, it is not required. We have seen some failures of the drive side roller bearings but these have been on bikes producing 150+ hp and tq. We've done many builds in the 120-130 area with no problems. It is a recommendation when the motor build requires the cases to be split, so the added cost is not that great in those instances.

Our "new motor tune" is a 4 hour, staged process that also combines tuning data collection as we stage the rpm's and loads. This allows tuning adjustments to be made during the staging and as we near the end of the process, tuning is nearly complete. At this point the bike is now in a state that allows final tuning. This process was developed out of our racing program and other known process's used by engine builders to help prepare bikes for racing. It is a controlled process and we've have literally done over a hundered bikes using it. Those bikes that have gone through this process have routinely given better dyno numbers than those that have not. Even after subsequent accumulated milage, the few we've redynoed have not shown appreciable increases (though we would have guessed they would). This process does not fully break in the motor and further break in is recommended.

The benefits are, 1-the initial break in (most critical) is done in a controlled invironment, using a controlled process while monitoring parameters and conditions using computer data collection of on bike and dyno sensors (better than getting stuck in traffic right out of the shop), 2-the remaining break in is done in a known fully tuned state vs an unkown tune (for 2000 miles?), 3-allows us to make sure all is fine with the bike and correct any issues found prior to delivery, 4-the owners first impressions of the build will be the best possible and the owner will not have to experiance the possibility of riding "glitchy" bike with the unkown tune until the tune can correct (same possible glitches goes to 1&2 above), 5-less chance of the motor getting into stress during the remaining break in since the most critical period is over, 6-no need to reschedule for the tune which can be very important for people with demanding shedules or those who've shipped their bikes long distances to us for performance upgrades (another reason for developing this process). The added cost ($62.50) to the already anticipated custom mapping has proved to be very worthwhile for the above benifits for many, if not most, of our customers.
Mike

[gypsyangel]

Ok, you had mentioned that and i guess seeing it in writing helped me to understand. So you actually do the breakin right there on the dyno and monitor the bike as the miles increase to a point where you feel comfortable handing her back over. Very good. Mike if you would Please tell me what the price of this hippo build would be and would it serve my bike. I've heard great things and it's a typical harley build. Here are the parts starting from the top= Screaming Eagle Heads #16952-06m Kieth Black 3.875 cast flat top pistons 95in. Bore cylinders to specs (3.875) S&S 570G Cams (geardrive), S&S Cam install kit (gaskets & bearings), Cometic top-end gasket set with .030 Head gaskets. Daytona Twin Tec adjustable ignition (DTT), Screaming Eagle adjustable pushrods. Can you also quote this build please. Thanks and please know as any good student i'm doing my homework and just trying to be sure that i'm doing everything i need to do to get the maximum bang for the buck. Look forward to hearing from you.

Steven

[Mike]

The only fly in the ointment are the SE Performance heads. We used to say they are comparable to the Baisley Superstock ported heads but recent testing has shown a greater variance in them than expected. As an "as cast" head, we cannot rely in their ability to deliver consistant and predictable HP numbers. When ported (by Baisley) they are a very good head but this adds substantial cost. So with the Superstocks being approx the same price and more predictable we tend to recommend them when shooting for specific hp targets with better confidence we'll achieve our goal.

The KB pistons have been known to have machining inconsistancies and do not show any advantage vs the SE pistons. In fact the SE's are less money, coated and have offset wrist pins which really makes them a better choice. The differences in compression ratio's can be corrected with head gaskets and decking (priced into the Superestock heads).

With the Superstock heads and depending on the bike use (touring vs non) the S7S 585 cam set is another option. As discussed, the gear drive cams add cost, possible engine noise and do not allow as deep of discounting during our sale season.

The DTT ignition is fine.

We prefer the SE Perfect Fit pushrods vs the Quick Installs. Again, less expensive, more rigid and tend to run quiter.

The Hippo build is a very good build but we believe we can achieve the same result (arguably better) with the above combo for the above reasons. I can tell you the Hippo build will be mor expensive due to the gear drive, pushrod and piston cost differences.
Mike

[gypsyangel]

Mike, I was in today and didn't really get to talk to you, a couple small issues to be worked out but first here is the link to vulcan and it has great pix of the 180 spacer kit and how it's used even shows that oem rubber seal. Take a look if you would and it might be a good idea to save it for who ever installs the tire because it clearly explains why you need this kit with the tire. Here is the link: http://www.vulcanworks.net/store_4/product.php?productid=392&cat=0&page=1

Now some how Gardy did a quote for an engine build for me and Levi used his quote and pushed my bill passed 6000.00 before the 20/20 that's still outrageous and i compared the quotes and they are relatively the same except we have added the fat cat exhaust which adds quite a punch but not 2 grand worth and the tires which come in around 250.00. Can you please compare the quote under my name with what you wanted to do and be sure this is right and correct it if not. I didn't see the torrington cam bearings on there or the se billet cam plate and your quote which in all fairness you said was an estimate came in at 3889.00 after the discount is applied minus the exhaust and tires. Please be sure I'm getting the right parts. I was talking to gardy and he was amped on doing the quote so i let him just to see if he was close, but he went through the roof on me I mean for 6 grand you can get a 106 se hot set. Anyhow well figure it out, Listen I really want that big radius 2:1 if i'm going to do the exhaust upgrade. I feel like it's really gonna give my bike a killer look and we should still hit triple digit numbers and really that's what this is about good numbers and a good looking bike. While i'm on the subject do the guys working on the bike do some minor cleaning of the engine area while its torn down, I'm sure there are places around there that get gunked up and it would be nice to get that all cleaned up while its accessable. Anyhow thats about it. Please get back to me and if you can review the quote and fix anything that needs fixing and if you can tune the big radius pipe then switch it out. If you can't then i'd just as soon keep the long shots since i know you can tune them and yeah i know they don't hit the numbers the fat cat would, but i looked at thads and it just has no sex appeal, now the big radius that sucker is hot i love it.

[gypsyangel]

Gotcha, your probably reading my last post now.lolol anyhow I good with what you want to do. you are the man and really i just want the best bang for the buck.

[Mike]

I'll check with Gardy. Please use my e-mail address (on my card) for further questions specific to your estimate and build as this is getting outside the purpose of this forum. I agree on the Big Rad, thing looks cool!
Thanks, Mike

[gypsyangel]

Sorry Mike, I will email your direct regarding any specific questions for my build your right about the content getting outside the particular parameters of this forum.

[Mike]

No problem, just trying to keep things in the best places to serve you.
Mike