SE HTCC and Zippers 54mm

[Fatboy113]

Mike,

I have enjoyed your forum for a long time and finally came to a situation that I have to call bulls%$! on. I have recently gone from a nice, hot 103" build in my `04 Fatboy to a 113". I am using SE HTCC CNC Ported heads; the corresponding 113" 10.5 pistons; S&S 625 Gear Drive; D&D Fat Cat with comp baffle, and I ordered a Zippers 54mmTB. Everything seemed to be going well until Zippers says it will be 6/21/07 when the manifold is released. They sent the TB, but no intake. Is there some top secrect intake to mate up to these heads? I have been waiting for almost 2 months. Of course you cannot contact Zippers directly and I have had to deal with "someone that knows someone that is a Drag Specialties rep who says.....blah blah blah". It is getting a little ridiculous at this point, not to mention that dealing the this particular HD dealership has been a nightmare.

[Fatboy113]

Anyone have any information for me concerning this? Anyone? Thanks!

[Mike]

The intake has to accomadate the injectors and fuel rail and mate up to the Zippers T-body. I know and like the Zippy guys but in your case would recommend going with the Kuryakyn 57. Inexpensive and available in the standard port I.D. (1.800 manifolds were also on backorder last I looked). Of course you'll need Race Tuner to make it all work.
Mike

[Fatboy113]

Mike,

Thank You so much for the response. I also have been a big fan of Zippers for quite sometime and really looked forward to having some of their hardware in my build. It is because of this reason (and because I already paid for it) :) that I will stick with it and just wait out the intake. It would be nice to actually be able to speak with someone over there. I never have even gotten a reply back to any of the inquires I sent them in the past. Anyway, I did decide to also upgrade from the Fat Cat to the Boarzilla and ordered the pipes today. I have a set of RB Racing 2:1, but with the 2" head pipe and no baffle they simply killed my 103. I do not have a Race Tuner, but I do have the Power Commander III and will stick with it for now. I guess I just have to wait for my intake to be made. Now, if I could just find a way to get up there to let you guys tune my bike. Ah, a man can dream.......

[scootertrash]

If I can butt in a little. I too was interested in the Zipper throttle body and was able to get their phone number off the web. I'm not sure but I think I googled it. The number didn't help much as the person that took my call was not very unhelpful. I figured it was because I was looking at a ebay sale or just my "charming" personality. Anyway you might try google. If I can ask? What was your "hot build" 103. Cam, heads ect. I too have a rbracing header with 2" headpipes but with the larger collector and a baffle and it seems to pull real hard however I haven't found a dyno shop that I trust to tune it yet so I don't have any numbers to talk about.

[Fatboy113]

Well, considering some of the great motor builds I have read about on this forum, I guess I shouldn`t say my build was all that "hot", but it was a good build and basically all Harley parts. It was all done at Mancuso Harley Davidson here in Houston, and if you follow Harley drag racing then the name Mancuso should be familiar. I had SE 257 cams, SE 45mm Throttle Body, Roller Rockers, SE Air Cleaner, D&D Fat Cat Pipes with the big baffle, 103 10.5 compression pistons, of course the 103 stroker flywheel / crank. I think what gave it such great power is that I didn`t use the 103 heads, but instead took a set of the SE Big Bore heads and had them worked over at Greg Good Cylinder Heads here in Houston. They were Machined, Ported, Polished, and severely decked. He also did a full race valve job. My last dyno numbers were 114hp and 119trq from the 103 and it pulled hard all the way across the curve.

As for my RB pipes. They have an open collector which I am sure is what killed my power. With those pipes I was barely making 100hp and even less trq.

[scootertrash]

Sounds "hot " to me. I was interested in what you had as I have a 103 that I'm putting httc cnc ported heads , 10.5 pistons,roller rockers, 258 cam, SE50mm throttle body, Ness big sucker II aircleaner and the rbracing lsr header. They suggested that I buy the pipe with the 2" head pipes because it was a 103. Is your pipe a "B" or a "C" style? If it is a "C" did you experance excessive heat off the rear pipe in traffic? I'm headed down to your area next week to play and I took my header off and put the stock pipes back on because of the heat from the rear pipe. I ordered a heat sheild for it but if it takes as long to get the heat sheild as it did the pipe I probably won't see it till CHristmas and I'm not sure it will help. MIke seems to really like those D&D headers like you have. I wish I had found this site before I put my money down.

[Fatboy113]

Sounds like your bike is gonna run like a top! IMO, the RB guys are a little full of themselves. I swapped e-mails a few times and mentioned to them how my dyno runs were all over the charts and the pipes just killed my 103 and they went on and on how "we make the best pipes in the world and D&D pipes are junk". Their pipes are great for a drag bike, or if you don`t care about back pressure, but the ones they suggested to me killed my 103. I have the "C" style. I never really noticed a problem with the heat and I made a 2,800 mile trip to Big Bend and New Mexico with the pipes on my Fatboy at the end of May in 2005. The pipes are bad ass and sound great and would probably work best on a 124+ inch motor. They have been sitting in my garage for 2 years now. I`ll never change from D&D.

I have had 2 sportys, a Dyna, a Softail standard, and now my Fatboy and I can say that the D&D pipes are the absolute best performing pipe I have ever seen or heard about. I just ordered the Boarzilla pipes for my 113 build and got to unload these Fat Cats somewhere (not to mention my 103 build heads, cams, pistons, jugs, etc).

[scootertrash]

I'm sorry, I miss typed. I've got the "B" style ,where the rear pipe goes forward under the throttle body. I've had a pipes that looks just like it on my shovel and on 2 sportys made by a company called R&M that I think are no longer in business. They worked great and I never noticed the heat as a problem. I think it might be partly because of how you sit on a soft tail as compared to a swingarm frame. Another question if you don't mind. Why did you go from the custom ported to the cnc'ed httc heads? I got the cnc ported httc heads and I've been told that I was screwing up by not spending my money on a set of custom ported heads. Different strokes for different folks I guess but I was wondering how your paddle hits the water. 10-4 on the RB guys being a little full of themselves but with what little experience I've got , I tend to agree with them on a lot of the things they say on the web site One more question. Why the switch from the Fat Cats to the Boarzilla? I don't get out to mix with the scooter folks too much these days but I don't think there are many D&D headers around my area but I see them mentioned in a very positive way on several websites.THanks for your time and thoughts.

[Fatboy113]

Story on the heads = I thought I could maybe use the heads I had, but when they put the motor back together the 113 pistons were slapping the heads. They had been decked down too far. It was a gametime decision at that point. Rather than spend another month researching heads; I just went with a brand new set of the Harley HTCC CNC Ported heads and they had a set sitting right there.

Yeah, the RB guys dazzle you with bulls%$! and all sorts of facts and figures and like I said previously; If you are running a drag bike or a giant size motor then I suppose they would be good pipes, but all I know is after all of my research and all of their claims, the dyno doesn`t lie.

I went with the Boarzilla because it is made for a larger motor but maintains the same stepped header design and great collector / baffle design found on the FatCat. I figured since I increased the size of the intake, cams, and overall displacement of the engine; it sort of made since to give it a little more breathing room.

[scootertrash]

Hay thanks for all the helpful info. I didn't know that the D&D was a step design. I've run step header on several cars with good results and I've got a step type pipe on my 05' 88" motor and they seem to work good but again no dyno work to prove it I think I'll go ahead and play with the RBracing LSR a little before making it "shop art", since I've already got it and payed for it. Then I'll start looking for some D&D pipes.
Your right about the dyno not lieing. There is a portable dyno that goes around the area up here and sets up at these little sunday get togethers. YOu see a lot of folks roll their scooters up with their chest all puffed out and walk away with their heads down and shoulders stooped. Thanks again for the info.

[Mike]

If I may, use the new Quite baffle with the Boarzilla's. It'll pick up low end tq slightly with no loss of high end hp. With the Fatcats, do'er the other way round with the Performance baffle.
Mike

[Fatboy113]

Thanks Mike! I have read a few posts where you say to use the quiet baffle but I already got the pipes and put `em on. At idle and at a moderate speed they do sound a lot like the FatCat with the big baffle, but when you crack the throttle the Boarzilla`s are LOUD! I am STILL WAITING on my Zippers Intake, so when I get everything done and a good tune session done I will be able to do a compare with the quiet baffle.

[Mike]

Keep us posted. BTW, the Boarzilla quite baffle has a "deeper" sound.
Mike

[Fatboy113]

Hey Gang,

Well, the long and drawn out build is over. I`ll spare you the details of the continuing cluster f&*# at the dealership but I got it all done. I went out to East Side Honda in Baytown, TX. Yes, I said HONDA. They have a "state of the art" FlowJet Dyno and they do excellent tuning. Maybe Mike can add something to this because I don`t know all of the differences in the FlowJet and the DynoJet. Frow what I understand there are only a handful of these things around. Since the industry standard is a DYNOJET; they do a conversion at the end that gives you DYNOJET numbers (the numbers are the FlowJet are a lot different).

Anyway, after 12 pulls on the Dyno I got 127hp and 120trq.

My trq numbers didnn`t change a lot from my 103, but the curve did. It is more like a trq line and not a curve. It starts at the lowest point at 99.3ftlbs and goes to 120ftlbs.

Anyway, I am happy and now just want to get out and ride.

[Mike]

Thanks for the update. The new Dynojet 250i's tend to be closer to the Superflow's on numbers so the "Dynojet" conversion may not be needed when comparing to the 250i's.
Mike