Slip Ons Only?

[jober]

Hello, I'm new here. I'm waiting for my new FLHX to arrive and all I want to do is get better exhaust sound. I plan on just putting on a set of Rush or Vance Hines Basic Slip On's. I've heard mixed opinions on whether I have to do a re-map, PCIII OR SERT and a/c. I understand that if I do the slip ons and a/c I need to do a re-map or PCIII, etc. because I'm allow more air in.

But if I just add slip-on's do I have to do anything else. Some say the bike is lean to start with and will run leaner and that's why I should do a re-map, some say it's fine until I add an a/c.

Help! Thanks.

[roofeditor]

Already running 14:1 or even worse 14.5:1 with stock exhaust. Opening up the exhaust and a stage one filter will put you in the 15:1 range and that my friend is lean for any engine particularly an air cooled one. Bite the bullet and get the SERT you'll make much better low end torque and your engine will run a bunch cooler. You will probably burn more fuel. Not a lot more but richer is more fuel.

[jober]

roofeditor - 2007-03-28 4:52 PM

Already running 14:1 or even worse 14.5:1 with stock exhaust. Opening up the exhaust and a stage one filter will put you in the 15:1 range and that my friend is lean for any engine particularly an air cooled one. Bite the bullet and get the SERT you'll make much better low end torque and your engine will run a bunch cooler. You will probably burn more fuel. Not a lot more but richer is more fuel.

I don't get the numbers you're talking about (14:1, etc.) but I get your drift. I should get a tuner no matter what. Even if I leave everything stock, or just add slip ons. But to take advantange of the tuner, I may as well do the intake a/c as well.

Thanks for the info.

[roofeditor]

jober - 2007-03-28 7:06 PM

roofeditor - 2007-03-28 4:52 PM

Already running 14:1 or even worse 14.5:1 with stock exhaust. Opening up the exhaust and a stage one filter will put you in the 15:1 range and that my friend is lean for any engine particularly an air cooled one. Bite the bullet and get the SERT you'll make much better low end torque and your engine will run a bunch cooler. You will probably burn more fuel. Not a lot more but richer is more fuel.

I don't get the numbers you're talking about (14:1, etc.) but I get your drift. I should get a tuner no matter what. Even if I leave everything stock, or just add slip ons. But to take advantage of the tuner, I may as well do the intake a/c as well.

Thanks for the info.

Air fuel ratio. Generally running an air cooled engine even a lawn mower above 14:1 14 being air and 1 being fuel results in excessive heat and pinging under load. watered cooled engines can be pushed some because they are not relying on the fuel as a coolant.

[Mike]

Apoligies for late reply (racing, school, vacation). Roofeditor is correct that water cooled motors can handle higher ratios but the twin cammers are also designed to run leaner than earlier models (piston cooling jets being a major part). The 14.1 AFR is good for mid range and cruise to help fuel milage but bad at wide open throttle or under heavy load where power is more important. The beauty of fuel injection is that we can have both the economy where we want it and the power where needed. It is NOT 14.1 AFR everwhere at all times. 14.1-14.5 best for ecomomy, 12.8-13.2 best for power. The O2 equiped bikes have the capability to handle mufflers only but will still run hot and lazy with the stock emmisions mapping. The Power Commander eleminates the O2's and I believe this is not a good thing, though I have recommended PC's for some applications. If possible go with the Race Tuner, much more capability and retains the O2 function. Last, there is a LOT of background stuff going on with the ECM and it's mapping that the PC cannot correctly deal with and may in fact, unknowingly, struggle with.
Last, go with the air cleaner, it will help move more air and when properly mapped will make more power and run cooler.
Mike

[jober]

Mike - 2007-04-03 5:35 PM

Apoligies for late reply (racing, school, vacation). Roofeditor is correct that water cooled motors can handle higher ratios but the twin cammers are also designed to run leaner than earlier models (piston cooling jets being a major part). The 14.1 AFR is good for mid range and cruise to help fuel milage but bad at wide open throttle or under heavy load where power is more important. The beauty of fuel injection is that we can have both the economy where we want it and the power where needed. It is NOT 14.1 AFR everwhere at all times. 14.1-14.5 best for ecomomy, 12.8-13.2 best for power. The O2 equiped bikes have the capability to handle mufflers only but will still run hot and lazy with the stock emmisions mapping. The Power Commander eleminates the O2's and I believe this is not a good thing, though I have recommended PC's for some applications. If possible go with the Race Tuner, much more capability and retains the O2 function. Last, there is a LOT of background stuff going on with the ECM and it's mapping that the PC cannot correctly deal with and may in fact, unknowingly, struggle with.
Last, go with the air cleaner, it will help move more air and when properly mapped will make more power and run cooler.
Mike

Thanks Mike. I guess what I want to do basically is improve the sound. I'm not really interested in increasing power/performance at my age and will rarely if at all open it at full throttle. Just cruisin in town, going to work, the odd short trip. So will I be ok with just adding the slip on's and doing nothing else? I don't want engine damage (if adding slip on's makes it run leaner, then I should get a tuner PCIII? I don't want to spend that much $ on a SERT and get involved with all this configuration/calibration stuff). Thanks in advance.

[roofeditor]

I have D and D police interceptors on my 07 Ultra along with the stage one filter. Previous to the slip ons and the filter the engine was running hot and had fuel air ratios in the 14:1 range. After installation the engine ran real hot and had AF ratios in the 14.8 range and it pinged "for about one day". After the SERT and the dyno I'm in the 13.5-13.8 range which might not appear to be much but guess what, more low end torque, much cooler, no pinging and a better running bike. Fuel economy went down about 10-20 miles per full tank, however that might be deceptive in that I now drive a little harder. Get the tune!

[jober]

Roodeditor, My question was that if I add JUST slip ons will I be ok? You added airfilter so of course it will run hot/leaner. I want to keep my costs down if I can. So my question to Mike was if I just want better sound, will adding slip on's make me run even leaner and hotter. If yes, then I will have to spend more $ on an air cleaner AND a tuner or I may just leave it stock.

Waiting for Mike's reply.

[roofeditor]

I'll let Mike answer for himself but the 07 Baggers in my opinion run way too lean hence some pinging when they get hot and a lot of heat from the rear cylinder. I think slip-ons may make it run even more lean.

[jober]

My understanding is that lean means more air in than you should have. So I can see leaner if you add an air cleaner but don't see how adding slip on's let more air in. Maybe there's more to the theory than I think.

[roofeditor]

jober - 2007-04-05 8:19 AM

My understanding is that lean means more air in than you should have. So I can see leaner if you add an air cleaner but don't see how adding slip on's let more air in. Maybe there's more to the theory than I think.

Let more air in or let more exhaust out results in more air flow.....I think.

[Mike]

The slip-ons allow the motor to PROCESS, or move, more air thus leaning the AFR (unless something is done to increase to fuel to match the increase in air). Without the addition of an air cleaner, the increase is less as the stock air cleaner becomes the restriction or limiter to the amount of air the motor can process. Combined, they allow more air in (the air cleaner) and more air out (mufflers) greatly increasing the amount of air the motor processes (more hp). This is why SERT maps are expressed in VE values, which are a measurement of air flowing through the motor. Closed loop O2 sensor equiped bikes have a limited capability to account for these increases and are more forgiving than earlier models. But with the already lean running conditions associated with stock mapping, increasing air flow may cause the bike to run hotter yet even though the O2's are compensating. Typically, owners also wish to address the heat issues and sluggish performance of the stock mapping and so many go with remapping (Screaming Eagle Race Tuner) when changing mufflers to get these added benenfits.
Mike

[jober]

Thanks Mike. So what I'm gathering here is that I either leave the bike stock or if I want better sound by adding slip ons, I should put in a tuner to richen it out. That combo seems less common from what I have been reading. It seems that if you put slip ons, you should put a tuner in to richen it but most add an air cleaner to give more power. Are there any reasons why it would be not wise to just do a tuner and slip ons?

[Mike]

Most of those doing slip-ons only are on a budget and thus hesitant to spend the extra money on the Tuner, just not part of that budget. But yes, the bike will make more power with the addition of the air cleaner and the tuner could be justified on the heat, performance and driveability improvements alone, even if just using a "canned" map.
Mike

[roofeditor]

Mike - 2007-04-06 6:51 PM

Most of those doing slip-ons only are on a budget and thus hesitant to spend the extra money on the Tuner, just not part of that budget. But yes, the bike will make more power with the addition of the air cleaner and the tuner could be justified on the heat, performance and driveabiltiy improvements alone, even if just using a "canned" map.
Mike


Which brings another point. How many dealers actually make 6-12 runs and actually tweak the tune for THAT bike configuration and how many say they did when in fact they simply do a "canned" down load that "should" work OK! Obviously you can't possibly know what all other dealers are doing but I suspect many do the quick and cheap "canned" download.

[jober]

I guess that's a better reason for me to get a tuner. Thanks guys.