07 SE 103ci

[softail07]

Hi Mike,

Question1:
I have an 07 Night train and have just ordered an 103ci SE Engine upgrade, HTCC CNC Ported heads, HTCC pistons, 50mm EFI Throttle body. 260 cam with Bub Triple Stepped Jug Hugger Exhaust. I am following the HD package, part for part. The HD book Dyno is showing around 108HP and 105TQ. I feel that this package should produce much more HP than the book shows. Reasons are as follows: I had an 01 Deuce 95ci with HTCC heads and a 211 cam, CV 44mm and got 102HP and 108TQ. Also, my brother has an 04 softail, EFI, 95ci, HTCC Heads with a 251cam and is getting 106HP and 105TQ. This package has more displacement(103 vs 95), better heads (CNC Ported vs non-ported), bigger EFI (42mm vs 50mm) and a bigger cam (251 vs 260). Where do you think I should be in HP and TQ? Also, this very same SE Package like I just ordered is in the HD book showing 120HP, the only difference it has a 51mm CV carb. Can HD's 50mm EFI actually take away 10-15 HP vs having a 51mm cv carb? Again, I have had good success going with the HD packages in the past. Also, unfortunately, my dealer will NOT deviate from HD packages or else they will void my warranty.

Question2:
How good are the SE 103+ heads? My friend is thinking about getting the 113 and Harley is recommending the 103+ heads with the 264 cam. I feel that the HTCC CNC Ported are better flowing heads and that he should get the HTCC Ported on the 113 along with the 260cam. Your thoughts? Also, what pistons should he use with the HTCC Ported heads for the 113 build?

Question3:
As I mentioned, I will have BUB Jug Huggers exhaust, will they perform well with my SE HTCC 103 ci build? I had a Thunderheader on my 95 build, but I was told that the Thunderheader does not perform as well in larger displacement engines. Your thoughts?

I have enjoyed reading your responses and value your opinion. Thank you in advance.....

Ron

[Mike]

Thank you for using our forum. The 07's will show less hp due to drive train changes. The larger engine sprocket (less leverage), auto chain tensioner drag, 12 gears wadding through oil (vs 10 in a 5spd) and the added mass of all. HD is also showing numbers using the 50 state legal exhaust for 07's, where in the past many of the dyno charts were generated using SE Performance mufflers. 10hp difference, when talking 100+ numbers is proving reasonable. At least this seems to be the trend, we'll know more as time goes.
The SE 103+ heads have not proved to be great. I agree with your thoughts that the CNC heads are a better choice along with the 260's vs 264's (the 264's will lesson cylinder pressure, make starting easier and reduce detonation possibility but at the cost of low/mid torque).
The "jug Huggers" should do OK as they are a stepped design. Expect a torque dip from 2-3k, but not so bad as motor size goes up. Your are correct about the T-header, it's a great 80-95ci pipe but is not quite enough for bigger motors or aggressive 95's. Let me know how it all works out!
Mike

[softail07]

Mike, thanks for the quick response. One more question on this. How many miles should I put on the new engine before I have it Race tuned on the Dyno? Currently, I have 600 miles on the bike....

Thanks again!
Ron

[Mike]

The milage varies with the tuner. Some like as many as 2500, others 1500. We routinely like to see 500, if less, we have a dyno "break-in" process. This is a good thing since the break-in is now done in a tuned state.
Thanks, Mike

[softail07]

Thanks Mike...500 is when i got my 01 tuned as well....

I actually changed my SE performace order this moring, instead of the 103ci, for an additional $450, I upgraded to the 113ci. I selected the HTCC ported heads, HTCC pistons, 50mm t-body, 260 cam with a SE heavy breather performance air cleaner and the Bub Jug Hugger exhaust. I figured for an additional 10ci, it was a no brainer! This is a slight deviation form Harley's 113ci Kit; they list the 103+ heads with the 264 cam. Do you see any concerns with this configuration that I selected??

Thanks Mike.
Ron

[Mike]

You can see the results of our magazine 113 build in our dyno library. Your combo sounds very good and should be happy! For others reading, just know that the cases must be machined for the 113 cylinders (same for the 110). This means the motor must come out of the chassis and be completely dissassembled/reassembled/reinstalled. It's the additional labor for these that often makes or breaks the decision to go 110/113 vs 103 on 07's. Only recommendation is you'll need a little more clutch. We like the AIM TPP lockup. Fits under the stock clutch cover (even on 07's), less money than a new clutch and retains the light lever pull. They have various models depending on motor size/torque.
Thanks, Mike

[softail07]

Thanks Mike....

I did order a HD Diaphram Clutch spring(part#,37951-98) which should assist in increasing capacity of my stock clutch. Will this part suffice or will I still need the AIM TPP lockup?

[softail07]

Mike, I have an exhaust question if you don't mind...as you know, when HD added these O2 sensors, exhaust manufacturers are still behind in production. I know your in favor of the D&D 2 into 1. I had that exhaust on my Texas Chopper. My question is, I am looking for an alternative exhaust to the Bub Jug Huggers(thier not do until late January). Besides the D&D exhaust, what do you reeommend that will work well with my SE 113ci build? Vance and Hines Big Radius? Reinhart 2 into 1? Hooker Exhaust?

Thanks in advance.

Ron

[Mike]

The SE clutch spring seems to be good for about 120 ft lb torque at the rear wheel. It may take more but we've had several slip at this number. Above this number is where the TPP lockup comes in.

I like a stepped head pipe system for a motor of that size. The Rhineharts look like good choice but I have only one dynotune to show how they work. Some exh. will perfrom differently depending on motor size so we want to be careful with our comparisons. There is also a lot of new stuff coming on market that we have not had a chance to sample. What I would be looking for is a stepped head pipe starting at 1 3/4 inches with at least three up steps from there, then the largest muffler (volume) possible, which, last allows for quiter note without sacrificing performance. Hard-Krome Double D has introduced some new systems that appear to satisfy these criteria for touring models. I do not know if they carry these design features over to the Softtail/Dyna versions. Vance and Hines also has a brand new 2-1 that looks very promising. Hooker has just been too conservative on pipe I.D.'s for these bigger motors. The new Samson Calibre series also looks good but still not enough muffler volume. Last, RB Racing has another prospect, the Blackhole series. No test data on these but I've used their pipes in the past with good results. We'll be installing one on a 110 Softail build and will post info. hopefully by early Jan. Ask a simple question, eh!
Thanks, Mike

[softail07]

I like details....don't worry about saying too much!

Thanks Mike......
Ron

[softail07]

Mike
Relative to my 113 build mentioned above, I am expecting 120-125HP by using the HD 50mm Throttle body....What are your comments on Kuryakyn's 57mm throttle body? Should that give me significant more HP over the HD 50mm?

Happy Holidays!
Ron

[Mike]

The 57 would be better. We'll be introducing our variable venturi t-body in about 3 months. It can be any size from 30-58 and for 06L models. Have not seen Kury's 07 version yet, tried to order one but were not available. Not sure if anyone has a true 07 version yet, we've been converting bikes back to the 05E configuration.
Thanks, Mike

[softail07]

Mike,
My brother's 04 HD softail has a 95ci with the SE HTCC Setup, with 251cam, EFI. He has 106HP & 106TQ. He wants more....! I feel he has pretty much max'd out with his 95 ci motor.

What do you suggest...?

Ron

Ron

[Mike]

It will be tough to get much more without some compromises in low end torque and possibly reliability. The most logical step would be to install the 4 3/8 stroke flyhweels for a subtsantial gain. This would work well with the parts already installed but is fairly expensive in labor costs. It will also require a piston change and benefit from a larger throttle body.

[softail07]

Thanks for the info Mike.....

Ron

[softail07]

Mike,

Does Latus HD bore out HArley Throttle bodies? For my SE 113 build, I was thinking of getting the SE 50mm T-Body bore'd out, polished, etc...Will I get a decent benefit from having this done, to improve air/fuel flow to my SE HTCC Ported heads? Your thoughts?

Ron

[Mike]

We do not bore the bodies. We're using the SE 50 in applications where hp expectations are 120 or less. We will be releasing our bigger body (40-58mm, variable) in, we hope, about 3 months for 06L applications.

Our testing has shown that the restriction in the stock and 50mm is in the manifold. Boring the throttle plate area larger does not address this problem and has not shown to be a big improvement on the dyno. Flow bench testing of the stock and 50mm also agrees with the hp numbers we've been seeing. The SE 50 is simply a bored out stock casting. As a one piece design (06L), porting the manifold is difficult. Ours retains the two piece design for this reason, among others. I say this knowing that we have not tested some of the bored out 50's by some porting companies. I do believe your combo may want more than what the 50 is capable of.
Thanks, Mike

[softail07]

Mike,
Kuryakyn is in the same situation with their T-Body for the 07 Harley's, theris is not ready for production yet either. Although I would like to try your T-Body, I really don't want to wait a couple of month's before I do my 113 build. Therefore, I plan on using the SE 50mm, hope I get between 120-125HP. If not, I'll be calling you for a T-body...I'll keep you posted on the results...

Thanks
Ron