06 DYNA - MAJOR ENGINE PROBLEMS

[LITTLE TOM]

New to the website - hoping that maybe your experience will shed some light on a problem I am having.
06 dyna - new bike - did the 113 SE upgrade - cnc heads and pistons - 257 cam - 50 mm throttle body - race tuner - big radius pipes - roller rockers
200 miles on build - loses oil pressure. crank shaft bent cracked pump gerator. Harley authorized all repairs.
2600 miles - same problem - Harley authorizes all repairs.

My concern is that there is a design problem. Do not want to have the motor replaced every couple of months.
Not beating this bike - never spun a tire - normal riding .

Spoke to Harley tech ( not dealer - factory ) - no answers - if they know something they are not saying.

Mechanic working on bike seems to know what he is doing. Has a number of 113 out there ( I can vouch for this ) and none have encountered this type of problem. This , however , is his first 06 dyna. Thinks the primary chain tensioner may be the problem - overtightening.

Any ideas on what may be the problem. Without discovering the cause this is just going to be a reacurring problem

All imput appreciated - Thanks TOM

[Mike]

Apologies for late reply. It would seem your a perfect canidate for a Timken conversion for the right side drive. We believe that the same dimensions are used in the 06 Dyna's for this bearing as earlier models (even though the crank output shaft has changed). If the right side is deflecting under torque, it can and will show up on the left side shaft end. If your crank is deflecting far enough to crack the gerotors in the pump, then you may also want to have it welded at the crank pin. I'm a little skeptical of this amount of deflection. It should also be opening up the cam support plate bushing the shaft end rides on (it may be doing this and just not mentioned). Were the flywheels checked for runout after removed from the cases and what are these numbers? In case runout is typ. .002-.006 (checked at the end of the pinion shaft), and crankshaft runout in a truing stand, checked close to the flywheel (bearing surfaces), should be .002 or less. We have built a lot of big motors and have yet to experiance such a failure (maybe in our future). We have seen the roller bearing on the right side fail on similar motors (typ. fractures the inside retainer and so cannot be seen when inspecting from the primary seal side). Such a failure would allow the entire cranshaft assembly to move and flex causing a pump failure. The chain adjuster has a spring under the ramp to prevent it from going too tight and to allow for chain tight spots. If this was to go too tight then the chain pad on the adjuster would likely fail and would be obvious when the cover was removed. Also, the primary chain would show signs of stress such as blued links, burned oil or even rust on the side plate (lack of lubrication due to oil burning off) and would be very stiff, if it was to apply enough pressure to deflect or bend the crankshaft (drag bikes with open chain primaries saw these problems commonly). Last, too tight of a primary chain would also apply it's load completely around the drive shaft, perpendicular to it, as the shaft is rotating. This typ. would break the shaft completely off the flywheel just outboard of the drive main bearing or wherever the greatest amount of flex is encountered(with the additional weight of the compensator and alternator rotor adding to the affect) as opposed to bending the shaft (oddly, this can manifest as a pinion shaft failure on older models where the pinion was smaller diameter and fit looser in the bearing, allowing it to be the flex point).
Thanks, Mike

[LITTLE TOM]

Appreciate your imput Mike. Harley has no answers. Factory rep looked at the bike and has no answers. It is now being assembled / rebuilt for the third time. Crank was reportedly within tolerances when installed and was 35 thousanths out when inpected after the last failure.
Harley absolutely refuses to make the timken bearing conversion, and will not even admit to ever hearing of this modification and /or any problems related to their roller bearing setup. I offered to pay for the timkin conversion out of my pocket - they said they will void any further repairs ( at their expense ) if I do this. The bike has been in the shop for 6 out of the last 9 months, and the factory's has no answers. If they know there is a problem they are certainly not admitting to it. I think it is pretty sad to treat a customer like that who has put a lot of money a lot of faith in their product. I"m shopping for a rice burner so I can have a backup bike that actually runs.
Keep in mind that the 06 dynas have a number of engine changes that are not on any of the other 06 Harley models. These changes have been implemented on all of the 07 line. Maybe Harleys setting themselves up for another class action suit. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks.

[Mike]

The Timken thing is kinda funny since the new XBRR uses the same Timken as earlier big twins (part number 9028), which is also what we use in our AMA XB built 3 years ago. Of course Buell and the rest of the factory do not always talk to each other (still Kimball EFI instead of Delphi). HD does way more testing than anyone else (especially endurance testing) and it's hard for me to believe that they plan on continuing with the current left side roller setup with the 103 and 110's to be common in the future, without having done that testing.
Of course even the Timken conversion will not correct the crank shaft going out of true. .035 is a lot and this would appear to be the real source of your problem. Solving that will most likely prevent future episodes. Possibly welding the crank!? The only things that would kick a crank that far out are typ. sudden stoppages such as burnouts, drag racing (VHT), high RPM downshifts or an accident that locked up the motor. These are typ. sudden events and are also associated with severe vibration afterwards. In your case the mystery is still open.
Thanks, Mike