Feulings New Cam plate

[kgoose]

Mike, I recently installed a Feuling cam plate in my TC 107. Already was using a Feuling oil pump and had a Tatus #2 spring installed in the cam plate.

When I installed the new Feuling cam plate I never thought to check the spring. Just figured with all the stuff out about it Feuling would address. The oil passage are huge compared to stock & other after market plates. So it flows more oil. More flow less oil pressure (that?s what I have been told).

The result of me not checking the spring.

Cold idle oil pressure 30 ?35 lbs. Hot idle (217 degrees) pressure 6-10 lbs. 2500 rpm (217 degrees) 30 lbs, 3000 rpm (217 degrees) 30lbs.

Result, lifter bleed off. Bad lifter bleed. I went from no tick up top to now having ticking. My cam is a Woods 9Fg (650 lift). SE lifters.

Finally the questions.

Are you familiar with the new Feuling cam plate and is the spring stiffer then stock or the same? Feuling would not answer this question when I asked them. They said my lifters flow to much oil and that is the problem. I know the SE?s flow more oil but they worked ok with the Delkron plate and the LMR#2 spring.

So, can I use a Latus spring with the Feuling plate and if so can I use the LMR#2 spring I have or, should I get the LMR#4 spring since the feuling cam plate pumps much more oil?

I am taking the SE lifters out and installing the Rev Performance lifters. They flow less oil then the SE lifters so that should also help. Rev P uses them on cams has high as T-Mans .710 lift cam and they are holding up. ?They say?

Your thoughts

Kevin

[Mike]

Unfortunatley with so many new products hitting the market we cannot keep up the testing and experiance to answer many questions. I can tell you that from other converastions with Fueling, they are saying their cam plate has a stiffer spring. They tell people to stretch the stock spring for more pressure when installing their pump, so a higher pressure spring in their plate would make sense. How much stiffer (if at all) I cannot say. Your pressure numbers sound about stock. The web plate itself should not change pressure even though some of the passages are larger. The restrictions in the lifters/bore, rocker bushings, pushrods, crankshaft, pionion bushing (Fueling eleminates this bushing but the tolerances should be the same as the stock bushing) piston oilers and bypass valve spring should dictate the end pressure, unless Fueling has enlarged the two cam chain oiling holes in the web plate. The 15% increase provided by our spring is based on the stock spring. We do have the 30% (LMR4) version and actually been selling quite a few even though I have some reservations about over oiling the engine and skating bearings with that high of pressure (they were intended to compenstate for lower than stock pressure due to looser tolerances in race engines).
In summary, I guess I would try the 30% version because of the new lifter noise your experiancing since oil seems to be bleeding off from somwehere. Not familiar with the Rev. Perf. lifters and cannot know how these will respond to the higher pressures.
Regards, Mike

[kgoose]

Mike,

Sorry I missed your called. Also thank you for your thoughts.

I cannot comment regarding the two chain oiling holes in the web plate. I did not really pay attention. Feulings web page states, increased oil flow to pinion shaft and connecting rod bearings. Not sure if that will effect the oil pressure or not.

They also state they set each plate to pop off at 55 PSI. Isn?t 55 PSI a Stock setting? If the answer is yes then their plate and spring is the same as stock. Correct?

Since I am changing the lifters, I will pull the plate as well and check out the spring. I do not have a spring tester but I have a stock HD spring, your Latus #2 spring and my thumb and finger. Would a local speed shop or HD dealer have a spring tester?

I will let you know. If I am not satisfied with what I find out, I will pull the cams and re- install in stock HD plate with your #2 spring and call it a day.

Kevin

[Mike]

H-D states the relief pressure is 35lbs so Fueling would be a 20lb. increase, thats a 57% increase! It could be that they are expressing the amount of pressure to fully expose the bypass port and I do not know the H-D specified pressure for that. The local sport bike shop who does racing should have a spring tester that reads low enough for these springs (H-D testers read too high, typ.). I've got my hands on a damaged web plate and so I'll try to confirm some of this by cutting that passage partially open and do some measurements. Our spring was developed on the specs we derived from profiling stock springs, installed lengths, travel to port opening and max. travel. We did not look at spring pressures as the valve exposed the port opening because there would be associated pressure drop as oil bypassed into the port, we just want to regulate to the prescribed pressure (in our case 40lbs with the LMR-002, 45.5 with LMR-004).
Thanks, Mike

[kgoose]

Mike,

See the attached jpeg. I pulled the Feuling cam plate and pulled the spring out. I show a stock HD spring, The Feuling Spring from their new cam plate and your Latus #2.

The picture answers the oil pressure question I believe. The Feuling Spring looks like a stretched stock HD spring. The feuling spring does have to more coils then the stock HD spring. Also notice a little to much gear lash between the Pinion gear and the main Cam gear. I have a one size over pinion gear on there. Going to have the dealer re-install the cams into stock HD plate with your Latus #2 spring. With the Feuling pump I should be good to go. (I hope)

Kevin

[kgoose]

Mike,

Could not attach jpeg. I sent it to your email. You can attach so people can see.

Kevin

[Mike]

Will do! Measure the centers on the Fueling plate and compare to stock. We've had a couple of Delkron plates (early versions) that were as much as .004 wide between pinion and rear cam. S&S only offers one oversize for the pinions, so if this does not take up the slack we have no where else to go. The stretch makes sense, since that is what they tell you to do with the stock spring when installing their pump. Still, 55lbs. pop-off seems high.
Thanks, Mike

[kgoose]

Measure the centers on the Fueling plate and compare to stock. Mike, I am not sure I know what you mean by measuring the centers of each plate.


Kevin

[kgoose]

Mike,

Short Block Charles is now offering a spring loaded main cam gear to take up the slack of excess gear lash between the pinion gear and main cam gear. He calls it the Zero lash gear. Take a look http://www.motorcyclemachine.com/Zero_lash.htm

Kevin

[Mike]

Easy but less accurate method; measure the closest point between the pinion bushing and rear cam bearing holes then compare same measurement to a stock web plate. Better, more accurate method; use a vertical mill with DRO, find center of one hole with co-axial center finder, zero DRO, tram across to other hole, find center and then read the difference. Do same for a stock plate. I'm sure there are other methods, but these are the tools we have.
Thanks, Mike

[Mike]

Thanks for the info!! Ref., SBC zero lash cam gear. I called SBC for pricing and availability. $500.00 retail and in stock.
Mike

[kgoose]

Mike

Installed Cams into stock HD cam plate with Latus #2 spring. Oil pressure is at 12 PSI hot idle and running 35 to 38 PSI at 200 degrees (return oil temps) and 38 to 40 PSI at 180 degrees. So a big improvement over the feuling cam plate and their spring. As noted above.

Installed new lfters so that may have also helped some.

Pinion Gear lash was less with the stock plate verses the Feuling cam plate. Going to go with the double Z (zz .0028) pinion gear to tighten it up a little more. Was surprised to hear Andrews also makes a triple Z (ZZZ .0042) pinion gear.

I guess sometimes stock is just better.

[Mike]

Thanks for the O.S. gear info.!!! Mike

[kgoose]

Mike,

Thank you for your help and willingness to share information.