Race Tuner question

[ctodd]

I currently have a 05 FLHRSI with Screamin' Eagle Pro one piece mufflers (64903-99) and stage 1 kit with remap. I'm in the process of installing Vance & Hines 2 into 1 pro pipe and race tuner. Will I have problems running the bike before installing my race tuner?
Thanks for doing this for people like me that are new to HD motorcycles. This site is everything I have been looking for with all the dyno charts and comparing data. You get a lot of different answers from everyone you talk to about upgrades but this site tells it all with hard data.

Thanks again,
Chris

[Mike]

Thanks Chris, We really appreciate those comments!! You'll be OK with the cal until Race Tuner but the bike may be a bit glitchy from 1800-2500 until the mapping is complete with SERT. This assumes the remap was done with the correct cal. for your combo. If you were changing cams, heads, motor size or compression along with the pipe then we would more concerned and recomend not riding the bike.
Regards, Mike

[ctodd]

Mike,
I noticed in another posting it was mentioned you sell SERT maps for $42.50. Since it appears you have done a number of bikes with the parts I have installed would this be a good starting point? I figure this will get me close and then I can make small adjustment myself or take it in for fine tuning on the dyno. Plus if I store my current setting I can always go back to them just in case. I just wish you were a little closer so I could have it fine tuned at your place, but Michigan is too far from your shop.

Thanks,
Chris

[Mike]

Apologies for late return on reply (in Pheonix racing). Yes, we sell maps from our data base. We'll only have maps for those combo's we've tuned but it's a pretty big file. These can be E-Mailed or sent on CD (Michigan just got a little closer, you'll need SERT ver 4.5.3). We hope to have a list of those available on this site soon (racing, again!). Due to variances in injector flow rates and fuel pressures from bike-to-bike we cannot gaurantee perfect performance and minor tweaking, at worst, may be needed. With SERT this is no problem and we'll give whatever support we can if needed. Thanks, Mike

[SiCkEL_RiDeR]

Hi Mike,
Do you have a map that would match with this configuration?

1.) SE HTCC Heads(D Style for better torque), Pistons and manifold (all
flow/dyno SE matched parts) - Went this way to try to offset the Low RPM
TQ loss from the Rinehart True Duals
2.) SE Big Bore 95" Cylinders
3.) Perfect Fit Pushrods
4.) S&S 570G
5.) S&S 4 Gear Kit (Bearings included)
6.) SE High Pro Clutch
7.) SE Race Tuner
8.) Rinehart True Duals
9.) Kuryakn HyperCharger PRO

I recently had this work done at Downtown HD here in Seattle. Problem is that I'm now past the BREAK-IN and want to DYNO to see what she really is producing and they have no working DYNO or TECH. Do you know, or can you recommend any DYNO/TECH Performance businesses in this Area that could do this work and know what they are doing with SERT?

Thanks in advance
Sickel Rider

[Mike]

We do not have a file for this specific combo! We do have a number of files for Rhinehart TD's, 95ci, 10.2 compression, ported heads, SE 251 cams and air cleaner kits. The 570 cams have about the same duration but earlier timing vs the 251's. Pipes the same, heads probably flow similar and compression similar so I would start with one of these maps as a base. Detonation would be a concern with those cams, compression and the HTCC heads and this may dictate HP numbers. We monitor this with Race Tuner Data while tuning and correct as needed.
As far as recommendations? All I can say is that we have had several Seattle customers come down to us for Race Tuning and, as far as I know, they all feel it was worth the trip. I guess if I had to pick someone closer I would try Full Throttle Dyno Service in Tacoma. They "guarantee" several things which we would not, I have not heard anything negative about them but I have no experiance with them, maybe worth a try.
Regards, Mike

[grey50]

Hey Mike,

I see that you sell maps from your database for the SERT. Do you sell maps for the power commander from your database as well? This weekend I am installing the following on my father?s ?03 Softail:

1) 95? cylinders with SE high comp cast pistons
2) SE 211 cams
3) SE air filter kit
4) Ported stock heads
5) SE 2 slip-on mufflers

I have a power commander PC3R installed now and I am changing to a SE race tuner in the near future (it?s ordered but still on backorder!) I need a map that I can ride safely for break-in and run until the SERT gets here?at which point I?ll be looking for a map for the SERT.

I also have a question about advance\retard cam gears. What?s your opinion about installing the SE 211 cam with a 4 degree cam advance? I was at my local Harley dealer getting a cam install kit and the Harley ?guru? that works there said they install ALL SE cams with 4 degree advance Crane Cams offset cam sprocket . That advice sounded a little fishy to me?and I?ll admit that my local Harley dealer isn?t exactly known for it?s technical knowledge and skill?. They?re more of a ?lets see that?s in the SE catalog? dealer. I don?t have much experience with Harley engines but I have rebuilt\hopped up many car and bike engines. Most performance cams you get today have the appropriate advance\retard ground into the cam so when you install it straight up it?s where it?s designed to be (with the exception on a race engine of course). Any thoughts?

[Mike]

Yes, we can sell PC maps but feel a little guilty due the large file database available on Dynojet's web site (free). We have customers buying PC's for this reason alone! I'll have to look at our data base to see if we have one for your combo. (we do a lot of 211 kits). The plus four gear does have it's place and we have used them. In your case it would raise cylinder corrected compression .2 lbs (9.12 to 9.33). I would prefer to choose the correct cam for the application than resort to the gear. The gear also will change the exhaust side and so may compromise timing. I would be a little nervous about catagorically putting the advanced gear in "everything"! Do they degree cams and run cylinder pressure numbers to really know what affect this is having? In high altittudes (Denver) this may help raise cylinder pressure and torque, but here at sea level concerns about detonation come in. Yet, again, choosing the correct cam would be better and we have a huge variety to choose from. Since we choose cams based on cylinder pressures as part of all motor builds, the need for changing cam timing is not there (race motors excepted).
Regards, Mike

[SiCkEL_RiDeR]

grey50 - 2006-04-27 3:32 PM

Hey Mike,

I see that you sell maps from your database for the SERT. Do you sell maps for the power commander from your database as well? This weekend I am installing the following on my father?s ?03 Softail:

1) 95? cylinders with SE high comp cast pistons
2) SE 211 cams
3) SE air filter kit
4) Ported stock heads
5) SE 2 slip-on mufflers

I have a power commander PC3R installed now and I am changing to a SE race tuner in the near future (it?s ordered but still on backorder!) I need a map that I can ride safely for break-in and run until the SERT gets here?at which point I?ll be looking for a map for the SERT.

I also have a question about advance\retard cam gears. What?s your opinion about installing the SE 211 cam with a 4 degree cam advance? I was at my local Harley dealer getting a cam install kit and the Harley ?guru? that works there said they install ALL SE cams with 4 degree advance Crane Cams offset cam sprocket . That advice sounded a little fishy to me?and I?ll admit that my local Harley dealer isn?t exactly known for it?s technical knowledge and skill?. They?re more of a ?lets see that?s in the SE catalog? dealer. I don?t have much experience with Harley engines but I have rebuilt\hopped up many car and bike engines. Most performance cams you get today have the appropriate advance\retard ground into the cam so when you install it straight up it?s where it?s designed to be (with the exception on a race engine of course). Any thoughts?


Mike is, after all , the expert.. but my unsolicited opinion is that the 203-211 SE's I call RV cams. Depending on what you do with your motor will depend on the duration and timing factors working together with FUEL ratios, mapping, Throttle Body, etc.. etc.. Mine was designed and built to a point that I knew I would be losing low end TQ, but gaining significant HP from around 3K up to around 5K(I hope). The DYNO will prove out what I did worked. The way it runs for me tells me I did good, but the DYNO will show me in black-in-white (assuming I find a DYNO Tech worth a tinker here in Seattle). If the DYNO doesn't prove it out and I suspect the TECH as the cause, I'm heading to Gladstone first chance I get and let Mike do his magic.

-SR

[Mike]

If we were in the car industry I would agree that the 203-211's would catagorize as RV cams. Not neccessarily a bad thing (my 79 El Camino rocked with such a cam). The 203 has given mixed results and with some notable exceptions (see our dyno library) has not been stellar. The 211 has proved very good when combined with the correct compression ratio. We use these cams primarily because they bolt in (compatible with stock heads), are H-D parts (for those who like to keep their bikes all Harley), excellent quality and price (deeper discounting for makover sales). Aftermarket cams can deliver better performance but do not fit the above criteria. The good news is that here at Latus we offer both H-D and the aftermarket choices to our customers. These decision's are based first on what our goal is for the motor upgrades, then which components best fit that need to realize the customers expectations. This holistic approach, I believe, is reflected in our results as shown in our dyno library. SR hits on the fact that all of the above is only realized through a good and proper tune (mapping). That is the part that can make or break the rest of the investment.
Thanks, Mike